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Handloads.Com Forum HandgunsMedium .357 loads | |
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| I have been playing around with some loads lately intended for use in a Mod 66. I'm trying for 1100-1200 fps, which is not too much more than +P .38 loads, but I'm not getting the accuracy I want. I am using 125gr Rem Golden Sabre in .357 brass and have tried 8 gr Green Dot, 10 gr SR 4756 and 9.3 gr SR 4756. The only other pistol powders I have on hand are H110, 700X and Bullseye. Green Dot is appealing because I found another cardboard can under a work bench the other day from the old MEC 600 jr days. | |
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| Never used any of the powders you have other then H110. I'd probably try Unique. Joed | |
| Author | This thread is locked. |
| I have been working on some loads for my GP-100. Have a lot of .38 special brass in the house, but do not have a .38 special handgun any more. (why don't we ever get rid of components?) Anyway, 5.5 grs Unique with a 158gr XTP, Starline .38 special brass, Winchester standard primer works just fine. I would try the Unique for your 125gr bullets. I know that was not your main question, but I only have Unique and 2400 in my house at the moment. Be a good excuse for you to head down to the gunstore and buy some new powder.  | |
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| Buy a can of Hodgdon Universal. It does what Unique does only better. Better meaning it meters better and burns cleaner. Universal is about perfect for the loads you are looking for. I made some with Remington 125 SJHP bullets a year or so ago and they were very accurate out of a GP100, a Security Six, a 686 and a Taurus 66. You can also load the top +P load from the Hodgdon site in a 38 Special case and it will do everything you want. | |
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| I second Universal. It burns clean, meters well and because of it's light color it's easy to see when looking at your cases in a progressive press to check for the powder level. | |
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| I forgot to add Power Pistol to the list. With PP you can get well into the 1200 fps range and stay at 38+P pressures. It makes for a quieter comfortable shooting round. Downside is muzzle flash, PP is BRIGHT. Step on up to magnum pressures and you can get the bullets moving right out with Power Pistol too. Meters very well, burns clean even in lightish loads and does not have the tendency to spike pressures rapidly with smaller changes in charge/seating depth/primers etc. VERY forgiving for what it will do for performance. If you enjoy muzzle flash load up some stout ones and let fly, it won't dissapoint. EDIT for spelling Edited on 11/1/2003 7:12:40 PM. | |
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| Smith, I'm trying to keep the Mod 66 intact, not set speed or muzzle flash records. Accuracy is a primary concern with the fps to generate a little more than +P. Give me some specifics on the Universal loads. Speer #13 calls for 8.2 gr and 1200 fps. So, is that what you are saying is an accurate load in your gun? | |
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| I would double and then triple check that 8.2 source. My data lists 7.6 max in 357 magnum with 125 grain bullets for 1450 fps. My loads were 7.2 and worked well. 6.7-6.9 should get you the 1200 you are looking for out of that 4" barrel. | |
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| Smith, I went to the Hodgdon website and found the load you referred to. I don't know how much difference a Rem Golden Sabre would make in the data, but Speer #13 p. 528 definitely shows 8.2 gr H. Universal at 1200 fps and 7.5 gr at 1148 fps in a 6" S&W Mod 19. The Hodgdon data was with a 10" barrel. Regardless of what the data says, I was interested in what you were using at an acceptable accuracy and pressure/velocity level. Of course, the cleaner burning aspect doesn't hurt my feelings any either! BTW, are you weighing this 7.2 gr or do you throw it in a powder measure? | |
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| Paul, I throw EVERY charge in EVERY load I roll. I weigh to get the volume right and then just monitor the weight. I feel that the best ammunition possible is with thrown charges and not 'weighed to the tenth' type charges. Most benchrest competitors agree..... The golden sabre is one of the brass jacketed bullets if I am not mistaken, and they are definately different from normal jacketed bullets. Your data may well be OK but I would work at it slowly if it were me. | |
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| Smith, Benchrest people may agree with that method, but we certainly didn't agree with it in the lab. Volumetric is OK in a liquid, as long as STP (standard temperature and pressure) is constant since volume changes with temp and pressure, but the variables involved in granules are too great for volumetric determinations. It's just like picking peas (purple hull cow peas of course), I can just pitch the peas in a bushel basket and end up with a 16# bushel or I can lay them in the bushel in an orderly fashion and get 24# in a bushel. That's the reason the produce people dump the peas into another basket periodically, to fluff them back up so they look like the bushel is full, but they weigh less as they lose moisture as the day progresses. A powder measure is similar to a bushel basket, where the amount is going to vary depending on the random fall into its volume, especially with extruded tubular powders. Even a weight of flour with change in volume if it's sifted or if you pack it. I can't deliver a consistant bump to have the same degree of packing with every throw of powder. I suppose that's one of the reasons loading tables are reported in weight. | |
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| Paul, the variations you talk about are real no doubt. I am after consistency within each lot of ammo loaded and not concerned with slight variations from day to day. The variations are slight too, they are undetectable with a chronograph (smaller than the SD anyway) in my experience. I use a progressive press with an automatic powder measure for every single powder charge I throw. The mechanism determines that the vibrations etc are the same and that the operation of the mechanism is the same. All I have to do is operate the handle smoothly and smartly, something even a trained chimp could do with staggering repeatability. I do only use short grained or ball types of powders further helping repeatability also. I typically will load a minimum of 500 rounds once a suitable recipe is found for pistol ammo and a minimum of 100 rifle rounds. They are loaded and stored as a "lot" and not mixed. This further hedges my bet that I will have consistency in my ammunition. If I truly believed that weight was more important than volume weighing charges would have a place in my reloading. My testing has not proven nor even hinted that on targets or game will I see an advantage to precisely weighed charges of powder. Far more use can be had from segregating brass and bullets based on weight for example. I thank you for the information, but my testing has shown that throwing charges is just as, if not more, effective than weighing charges. | |
| Author | This thread is locked. |
| Smith, Since I only have a Rock Chucker to load with, I don't have the luxury afforded to you. If I want consistancy I have to produce it with my own abilities to operate manual devices. That being said, I am forced to either upgrade to a progressive, to eliminate some of the variables, or use weight. At the present, you have provided the necessary information for me to approximate your load with the equipment I have on hand. Thanks for your input and enlightenment on different methods of producing ammunition. I wonder how a chrono would respond if I switched to using a Mettler XS64 with an accuracy of +/- .00154 gr.? | |
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| I've shot alot of 158 grain LSWC over 6.5 grains of Unique....it is a dirty powder, but my GP-100 and S&W 66 spit them out with amazing accuracy. Haven't tried Universal yet, but I will. | |
| Author | This thread is locked. |
| A can of Universal is on it's way. I should have it by Thursday to begin experimenting with. I normally have to drive 50 miles to get reloading supplies, but a friend of my son-in-law is picking some up for me. | |
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