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Handloads.Com Forum Long GunsPlastic tipped bullets. Boon or Bane to hunters? | |
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| A couple of years ago I witnessed someone shoot a whitetail with a Nosler ballistic tip, and the darned thing blew up on the surfce. In all fairness, the shot on the running doe hit her on the hip. Still, upon retrieving the deer, the bullet had blown up and not penetrated more than an inch of so (It was a 50 yard shot). Since that incident, I've refused to use plastic tipped bullets in hunting loads. So, Other than the fact my uncle needs to quit shooting at running deer, What's your take on the Hornady SST, Nosler Ballistic Tip, etc? | |
Is it deer season yet? | |
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| I've never tried plastic tips for hunting. My all around best performer in my 25-06 is the spitzer with a lead tip. Clean kills every time. HP's gave strange performance. There were times they went through the animal and did very little damage and times they were devastating. Joed | |
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| Boomer, Alot of people are using ballistic tips, but I'm going to try the original this year. I found a supply of 150 gr Rem Bronze points that I am going to work up for an 03-A3. My father used them back in the '50's with pretty good success, so I going to try them. | |
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| I tried 165 gr. ballistic tips for a few years in my model 70 '06. They are great unless you hit shoulder or leg, then you are looking at serious blood shot. The bullets totally come apart. I have found bits and pieces scattered all through the vitals on Elk I have shot. I never lost an animal, but I did loose a couple shoulders on deer which is why I quit using them. They are great in Contenders though. Hope this helps. Edited on 10/20/2003 10:17:01 PM. | |
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| You find plastic tips in all manner of strange places these days. Nosler Ballistic Tips and Hornady VMAX bullets do not shoot things I intend to eat. The AccuBond, Scirroco, and other bonded core bullets are just fine. IF I were using a pocket rifle, or shooting game at extreme distances I'd use the BT's and VMAX bullets due to low impact velocitites, and the fact that they will expand at those speeds. That concept needs context however, for a bone strike even at 2000 fps or so will still result in gross fragmentation and weight loss. | |
Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours? | |
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| The tip isn't the problem or the lack thereof, but the design of the bullet which is set up to open at a particular speed, as I'm sure you know. That particular bullet type is designed with expansion in mind. It is likely assumed that the shooter will try for a typical lung shot on a broadside animal and not use it on heavy game. If a hunter can always exercise the patience and has ideal circumstances, he can always take the sort of shot likely to guarantee success with a relatively frangible bullet such as these typically are. If the hunter isn't confident he can do that or isn't certain of the circumstance he's likely to encounter, he should choose another bullet. Personally, even if I were hunting from a blind under ideal conditions, I'd want a different bullet. Under spot and stalk conditions where shots might come at a bad angle from varying distances, I'd want a bullet such as a Partition or a Fail Safe. Otherwise, a "normal," non-premium bullet would probably be just fine. Edited on 10/20/2003 11:49:47 PM. | |
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| Rod has it right, the plastic tipped bullets are designed for LONG RANGE Varmits. I would use a different bullet design for deer. Buddy Little | |
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| All: Thanks for the input, You've reenforced my inital take on these trinkets. Unfortunately, although I view the advertisements for these bullets in big game calilbers with a jaundiced eye, the fact is the manufacturers are pushing them as big game bullets in 24-33 caliber. Wish thy'd cut that out! | |
Is it deer season yet? | |
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| I'm actually in favor of the Hornady 140 gr SST, not the VMAX (varmit) or AMAX (target), bullets for hunting. Probably because out of a 6.5 Swede at 2600 fps, rather than the 3000+ fps of the magnums, I get very good bullet performance. I have read and feel that with the interlock ring and the crimping of the bullet it will hold together and control expansion better than the Nosler BT. I have used the Nosler 120 Bullistic Tip for target and found it very accurate but core and jacket seperation in wet newspapper occured. Have not shot Hornady SST in papper but a Very large 4pt mule deer at 40 yards in the neck. Busted 3 vertabry with clean exit out the other side. Very little blood shot meat. Made the same shot years ago on even bigger 4pt at same range with 140 gr lead point Sierra gameking. Deer still just as dead but sierra did not exit other side of neck, lots of shocked meat. Granted there are severall bullets out there of stronger construction and more money, exp. Partion, Barnes X, Swift AFrame all very good at High velocite. But in the lower velocite calibers I think the SST is a good choice for the money however I would not shoot it from my 300 win. Neither would I use any plastic tip bullet in any cal. on game larger than a deer. Have read alot of positive reviews about the next big thing, inter bounded bullets but again almost twice the $$. Hope to hear more info on anyone else's experiance with bullet construction. Safe hunting, Gamegtr | |
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| Would everyone have the same opinion if the ballistic tip were to be incorporated with a solid base? I used the old Nosler Zipedo 85 gr 6mm and 52 gr N205 (6mm Rem) for years on deer and never had a problem. Maybe because the solid base ensured good penetration? | |
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| I have shot 3 deer with the Nosler BT's out of my 30-06. After the first, I became stopped using them for anything but wide-open spaces, even though my max shots are typically 100 yards. The first deer was a large-framed buck, 65-70 yard shot, interspersed tag alders. The shot was down a shooting lane I had cut previously. I had missed one branch about 40 yards out with my saw, about 1/2 the diameter of a #2 pencil. As luck would have it, the bullet found it. The result was bullet fragmentation, as noted by small amounts of lead spray on a sprag near where the deer was standing. The bullet struck the animal but I am unsure of where as I followed the blood trail for nearly a mile through some of the thickest swamp imaginable before it petered out and I lost the track. The second was a large doe I put down due to a badly broken leg. The shot was 40 yards and entered behind the right front shoulder, exiting the opposite side. The result was a wound channel you could nearly fit your arm through without getting your sleeve dirty. The doe still managed to go 25 yards after the shot. The last was a huge buck - honestly the largest I have ever seen in the woods. My guess at live weight is 220+. The shot was again about 40 yards, directed at the neck. The bullet never exited and he fell in his tracks. Since I started handloading, I still load BT's however rarely use them for hunting. | |
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| I have been using Nosler Ballistic Tip in my 25-06 for the last few years 90g for Deer and Antelope and 115g for Elk and Moose. I haven't had any problems with them at all but then I only shoot at the head or neck for instant kills. ( I don't like tracking ) | |
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| I know Im jumping in late but I've shot many deer with nosler BTs in 6.5 and .30 in my 260 Rem and .308. My conclusion is that the 6.5mm 120 gr Nosler BT needs almost perfect placement. The turning away deer died of the oblique angle shot but the bullet exploded on 2 ribs and shot much of the meat thru with bits of lead. Copper jacket was recovered empty. I always wonder when I eat that deer how much lead Im ingesting. The 308 is another matter. The 165gr BTs have done a fine job of dropping deer in their tracks. I've shot 'em from 15 yards to 200 and I have not had any recipients of the .308 BTs take another step. That said the .30 caliber nosler BTs I dont think will hold up on anything larger than deer | |
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| Without tring to hijack the thread... How do you think the 8mm 180gr BT would do at a MV of 2200 fps on deer, antelope and hogs between 50 and 150 yards? Would the Barnes X be better at that MV or worse? Trying to pick a good bullet for a Mannlicher carbine and I have no experience with them, but I find the premium bullets fascinating. One evidently very explosive and destructive, but not a good penetrator. The other made to open up but still hold together and penetrate. It looks from the comments above that the heavier Nosler BTs at moderate velocities may do better than the light ones pushed harder. As for my dilema maybe I should load 100 of each and see :) | |
Regards, Steve Clonts | |
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| Steve C, all too close. They would explode, go with Barnes or Accubonds. I have no first hand experience on BT:s but I must confess I use certain HP "target bullets" with good success on big game in 338 Lapua. Strictly broadside lungshots, long range at known velocity and known bullet behaviour. For normal shooting distances I see no reason to use a frangible bullet, you won´t gain anything the high BC gives you (wind blocking,energy retaining) until you reach out further. Then they open up beautifully,a Barnes might even "pencil through" at very long distances. Some people like to explode PD:s with BT:s though, they work for that. I only do that long range stuff (300+ is long to me) when I absolutely have to,usually an orphaned calf or hit-by-a-car moose that has to be taken care of. Steady bipod or tripod,load grouped at 500 yds at least so I know what I´m doing. All that said, broadside lungshots MAY work at closer distances too. But most people I know use BT:s for long range deer, no angled shots and the placement get very critical. Good luck! | |
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